linux-l: Life on Mailing Lists [000524]

Sven Guckes guckes at math.fu-berlin.de
Mi Mai 24 20:16:41 CEST 2000


Feedback?!

Sven

===
URL:         http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/faq/maillist.html
Created:     Mon May 22 12:00:00 MET DST 2000
Last update: Wed May 24 20:15:00 MET DST 2000

                             Life on Mailing Lists

     General problems in mailing lists - and some solutions.

     Hints on configuration for the mailer "mutt".

   Summary:
   * Do not use broken software. Let it die!
   * Use software you can configure.
   * Avoid noise on maillists.
   * Edit your messages!
   * Learn to use a mail filter.

   Overview:
   * Mutt and Mailing Lists
   * Reply-To Munging
   * Subject Munging
   * Signature Munging
    _________________________________________________________________

                            Mutt and Mailing Lists

  list-reply

   Mutt features the command "list-reply" which will reply to the first
   address it knows as the address of a mailing list.

   So you will have to tell mutt which addresses are mailing lists. You
   can configure this with the config command "lists":

        lists linux-l

   Now mutt knows that linux-l at DOMAIN is the address of a mailing list.
     _________________________________________________________________

                          MailList - Reply-To Munging

   Some maillists add a Reply-To: header which points back to the
   maillist. This feature shall make it easier to reply to the list.

   While this additional header indeed does solve a problem with bad
   mailers and lusers, it also creates other problems.

   Some mailers will use the address in the Reply-To line - no matter
   what. This means that the mailer does not give the user an option to
   reply to the sender in private. Such mailers are broken and should not
   be used until they get fixed. (Example: Old versions of elm, eg
   elm-2.4).

  Multiple Reply-To

   A Reply-To line is used to direct answers to a different address. So,
   if you are sending your mail from address A but you wish to receive
   replies at address B then you send to the list at address L like this:
        From:     A (me)
        To:       L (list)
        Reply-To: B (me)

   Now, the manager adds another Reply-To line, pointing back at the
   list:

        From:     A (me)
        To:       L (list)
        Reply-To: B (me)
        Reply-To: L (list)

   This is where confusion starts. Some mailers pick up the first
   Reply-To line they find in the header. Others scan the whole header
   and let the last Reply-To "win". So, depending on your mailer, you
   will get different results when you "reply".

   And it gets worse from there: Suppose that someone sends a mail to two
   maillist together with a Reply-To pointing back at *both* lists. You
   will then see a copy on both maillists - but with different additional
   Reply-To lines:
        From:     A  (me)
        To:       L1 (list1), L2 (list2)
        Reply-To: L1 (list1), L2 (list2)
        Reply-To: L1 (list1)

   Now - what will happen when you "reply" to this mail with your mailer?
   Do you know?
     _________________________________________________________________

                          MailList - Subject Munging

   Some managers add the name of the maillist to the Subject line. This
   is to make it easier for mailer with an integrated filter to put the
   mails Some people want to "sort" the mails by Subject line.
        Subject: linux-l:

   Just as with the Reply-To Munging you run into trouble when you send a
   mail to two maillists:
       list1:  Subject: [list1] new subject

       list2:  Subject: [list2] new subject

   Together with a Reply-To to both lists you will get to see mails which
   cross the additional maillist name:
        Subject: [list1] [list2] [list1] [list2]...

   In the end you get a lot of extra traffic with Subject lines such as
   these:
        Subject: [list2] make it STOP!!!
                     [list1] cut it out!
                     [list2] what is list1?
                     [list1] list2?

   In fact, the Subject lines are usually harder to read than that...

  Filter your Mails!

   Some mail clients have a builtin filter. However, it is better to use
   an external mail filter which filters mail independently of your
   mailer, simply because it makes maintainance easier for you.

   This may not make sense to you if you never want to use anything but
   the programs you are currently using. However, it pays off once you
   want to try a better mailer as you won't have a need to adjust all
   your filter rules.

   Besides, most mailing lists can be identified by the address that you
   send to - so a mail filter makes Subject munging superfluous.

   "procmail" is a well know and powerful mail filter. Unfortunately, its
   "language" seems to be strange at first:
        :0
        * ^TOlinux-l@
        LINUX

   This "filter rule" simply checks whether linux-l@ is included in any
   of the "To" lines known (ie it checks Cc: and other lines, too) - and
   then saves the result in the folder "LINUX".

   For more examples see Sven's setup for procmail
     _________________________________________________________________

                         MailList - MailList Signature

   Some managers add their own signatures with additional information, eg
   the maillist's homepage address and commands for unsubscribing.

   Again, the main indea is good: Additional information in every
   messages to prevent subscribers from asking the bleeding obvious.

        MailList HomePage:     http://www.maillist.org/
        MailList Unsubscribe:  echo unsubscribe | maillist at maillist.org

   However, this additional information also adds a lot of noise to the
   list. Especially because there are so many people who quote everything
   but hardly deleted anything of the quoted material - and this usually
   includes the maillist signature.

   What's worse - the additional signature conflicts with the signatures
   of the sender of the message. One more reason not to use a maillist
   signature!
     _________________________________________________________________

                                   Threading

   Threading is a feature of mailers and newsreaders to collect all
   messages which are replies to a post.

   [TODO: Add screenshot of threaded index for mutt and slrn.]

   Threading is only possible when answers contain a reference to the
   previous message. However, a reference to some included information is
   never a good idea (message content can be sent more than once and can
   even be empty). Therefore each message gets an extra header line with
   a unique "message identification":

        Message-ID: <2000-05-22T12-08-56 at guckes.net>

   And answers reference this Message-ID with either of these lines:
        In-Reply-To: MID

        References:  MID1 MID2 MID3 ...

   If you mailer or MTA does not add a reference then do not use it!!
   Please install sotfware that works properly. Otherwise you will make
   it harder for others to read messages.

   Mutt is one of the mailers which are capable of "threading". Th
     _________________________________________________________________

                                   Glossary

   followup
          A public response to a public message. Note: Public responses
          to private messages are frowned upon.

   luser
          A not-so-smart user. Sounds like "loser".

   mailer
          Short for "mail program". The technical term is "Mail User
          Agent" (MUA).

   maillist
          Abbreviation for "mailing list".

   manager
          Short for "mailing list manager". This is the program that
          manages the distribution of the mails to the subscribers.

   message
          Message is the general name for the things you send with Email
          and News/Usenet. Emails sends "mails" and on News/Usenet you
          "post" an "article"; you either "followup" to an article in
          public by posting a new article or you answer in private by
          "replying" to an article by Email. You usually include some
          cited material from the previous message to keep some context.

   MDA
          Abbreviation for "mail delivery agent".
          Examples: sendmail, tmail, procmail.

   MTA
          Abbreviation for "mail transfer/transport agent".
          Examples: sendmail, exim, qmail, smail, postfix.

   MUA
          Abbreviation for "mail user agent".
          Examples: elm, elmme+, mutt, pine.

   reply
          An answer to a message - usually an Email.

   subscriber
          A person subscribing to a maillist. Actually this is just an
          address. A person could subscribe to a maillist multiple times
          under various addresses, of course.
     _________________________________________________________________

                                     Links

   Mutt
          "Man's best friend."
          "All mail clients suck. But mutt sucks less."
          http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/mutt/
          http://www.mutt.org/

   Message Editing and Quoting Guide (with Examples)
          http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/mail/edit.html
     _________________________________________________________________

   Send feedback on this page to
  Sven Guckes guckes-maillist at math.fu-berlin.de



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